Not very long after Throne and Liberty launched in South Korea, NC’s official Inven (KR) forum began filling up with some pretty negative takes on the game. Some were stating the game isn’t “pay to win” enough while others are stating their distaste for NC. Then there are others who are saying the game is way too grindy. As a result, NC’s stock took a hit on Friday’s KOSPI opening (it closed at 261,000 KRW on Thursday) where it started the trading day at 238,000 KRW.
Here is how I look at that. Throne and Liberty (what was originally Lineage Eternal), is supposed to be THE successor to Lineage 2. What you are essentially talking about is trying to appease a veteran Lineage demographic (many of whom are from a different/older generation). This demographic has long been fine with P2W/RMT (more so as they’ve gotten older and have disposal income to throw around). The “hate” angle for NC/NCsoft is understandable; I’m one of those who has had a long distrust of the company. I also understand there are exceptions to this (perfect example is my being more receptive of ArenaNet which is a subsidiary unit of NC in the West). But I get it from the domestic perspective where many have gotten burned by the company (it’s akin to my feelings about Trion Worlds back in 2018 just prior to their insolvency). As for the ones who dislike the game because it’s too grindy, this is probably the younger demographic who may not have played a lot of old school games including the older Lineage titles.
NC has long had design challenges with this title (Lineage Eternal -> Project TL -> Throne and Liberty; where even this last iteration, required changes to it). The juggling act of trying to create the next spiritual successor to the first two titles, is real. It becomes even more complicated when one of the key design objectives is it being targeted for the west from the start (similar to how there was originally a mobile designation). All of this impacts the decision making process. The negative (Korean) takes are a result of this dichotomy.
Again, older players who are longtime Lineage/Lineage 2 players, don’t have a problem with the grindy AND P2W nature when it’s an expectation. Western players on the other hand dislike P2W (or anything that looks even remotely like it), and thus will have a different take on this. NC is very cognizant of the amount of non-Koreans who are playing on launch (and they are directly observing this dichotomy with the domestic reaction compared to western players). This is WHY the PD stated during the launching showcase video that some of the changes being made (including the removal of the Astral Hunting system) had nothing to do with the western version. However, there are many in the “don’t trust NC” camp, that don’t believe that. And so we go in this circle where some who do believe it has everything to do with that, are just hating on the entire thing even more.
The company “hate” thing, should be relatable for even western gamers. Some folks kiss off certain studios; the whole downfall of Blizzard Entertainment has been an exercise in this especially when various levels of trust have been broken. Trust is very difficult to get so once you get it and then lose it, it can literally be “game over”. So I understand that angle (since this blog pre-2016 was quite ad nauseum about that).
On the flipside, many of these same folks are acknowledging that because of the way the game is (without as much of the usual blatant P2W mechanics), do feel that it will be accepted well in the west. To be clear, there are P2W aspects in this KR release (which will likely be further modified for the Amazon Games version). The point they (especially veteran Lineage KR players) are trying to get across to NC, is that Throne and Liberty isn’t Lineage/Lineage 2 enough for them (again, this is a domestic launch so this feedback needs to be looked at with that context). If this is hard to grok, look at how Diablo III is looked at when compared to Diablo/Diablo II. Many older ARPG players and fans of the first two titles, had a certain level of expectation for Diablo III; the successor for those two first titles. And when that didn’t happen, all hell broke loose. I should know; I was one of those who contributed to that noise.
To be even more blunt, follow on’s have always faced challenges like this and it shouldn’t be surprising when a huge rift occurs. Look at MU Legend (aka MU 2) versus original MU (the latter is still in operation while the successor, is closed). Look at MapleStory 2; that was shutdown while original MapleStory is still going strong. I am pretty sure that when Path of Exile 2 launches, a similar PoE versus PoE 2 split will occur. Throne and Liberty is facing this same situation; the players who are opining negatively are not happy with how it’s not meeting THEIR (domestic) expectations. Yes, there is some generalizing occurring (since not all old school KR players care for grindy games or ones that have blatant P2W/RMT); but when you compare Asia and western expectations, there is a wider discrepancy whereas domestically in Korea, opinions will run the gamut (but P2W/RMT is generally viewed as more acceptable).
IMHO, I do get the feeling that the current PD tried to make Throne and Liberty be on equal footing regardless of region so that overall, it would be looked at as one of the least P2W titles released by the company (or even other Korean studios). The problem with that is opposite of what has usually been the case though with KMMO’s where all of the cash shop mechanics, needed to be worked around when those titles make it to the west. In this case, NC (or at least the Throne and Liberty team) maybe did not get it quite right for their own domestic demographic (thus the negative backlash). So what they do over the next week or so, is going to be critical for the ongoing perception of the game in South Korea. What they should not do is perform knee-jerk reactions type of changes that makes things actually worse.
As for the western perception (which has been more generally favorable by the ones who went through the trouble of getting an account), I would not put too much stock into it since there is a relatively small number dedicated to playing the KR launch. What will matter is how the AGS version (for the west) will be tuned, and how that is received. Myself, I’ve opined often about the previous iterations to the point where I suggested that NC stick a fork in it. I called the combat in the beta horrible and felt that if they launched the game as is, that it would be DoA (especially in the west). I literally was already looking at this as “6-ft under” where I wasn’t going to bother even when it launched. NC proved me wrong by removing Astral Hunting and finding a way to make the combat more dynamic (not fully action combat which I also expected given the launch showcase comments made by the PD). The fact that this current team made changes (including ditching the mobile playable system that was originally part of this entire version since it was first known as Lineage Eternal), left me re-evaluating keeping tabs on this game and not closing the door on this.
I do realize this game also isn’t targeted at folks like me. It’s not particularly solo player friendly (there’s a point where content requires guild and/or parties). But it really depends on the rest of the other game systems (and whether there’s enough of it/something that I find enjoyable that would play a factor similar to how things are for me in ArcheAge).
The actual contrarian in me is actually seeing this may now have decent potential in the west. The concern I still do have is who the lead for AGS is (given how ArcheAge was handled at Trion while he was the executive producer for it). As I mentioned up top, trust is something that is easy to lose, but difficult to regain (and there are many who were once involved at the leadership levels at Trion/Gamigo, that I simply do not trust when it comes to the decision making process).
